A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Collector » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:05 pm

I can also put them on the save games page. What version?
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:17 pm

Collector wrote:I can also put them on the save games page. What version?


That'd be awesome! Version 1.033
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:08 pm

Well, I am (score wise) half way through the game almost. 140/300.

I have been further than this before (I remember something about diving beneath a depth where there's cold to hide the sub).

But I am surprised, that in my youth, I got this far in this game. But back then, I think my friend Shawn and I would go on the Sierra BBS or call the freaking Sierra hotline.

Kids these days; have it so easy with the internet! :lol:
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby adeyke » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:40 pm

I decided that, since, if I was going to play it, it would be following a walkthrough to the letter, I might as well just watch a playthrough on YouTube. Wow. Brutal is right. There's one thing I still don't get:
What's the deal with the earring? As I understand it, you're sent encoded messages by the CIA and you have to use the microfilm from the earring to decode them. If you were actually meant to get that microfilm, it seems that Stacy used an incredibly risky and roundabout way of getting it to you.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:02 am

adeyke wrote:I decided that, since, if I was going to play it, it would be following a walkthrough to the letter, I might as well just watch a playthrough on YouTube. Wow. Brutal is right. There's one thing I still don't get:
What's the deal with the earring? As I understand it, you're sent encoded messages by the CIA and you have to use the microfilm from the earring to decode them. If you were actually meant to get that microfilm, it seems that Stacy used an incredibly risky and roundabout way of getting it to you.


For the earring- (I've not beat the game, so I don't know if she pops up again, but...) -I don't think she was meaning to get it to the main character. Other than being an absolutely horrible additional "step" to copy protection - the CIA messages, from my understanding thus far, is just "optional" information). Because there's no reason for her to "give it to you" - because it breaks it down by Navy, Air Force, Marine, and Army (I believe it is). And if it was just intended for you, it would have what you need just for the Navy code, since you're a member of the Navy. Again, just a hookey, overly complicated means of copy protection for "additional information" in the game)...

The real question is; for someone who is "undercover" she sure GOT under the covers pretty easily (one drink, one dance, and some kissing! It was almost like playing Leisure Suit Larry and getting Fawn!)
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:28 am

I am thankful that I am doing this multiple saves, and saving basically every step along...

So I got the code, after finishing dodging some icebergs - and apparently wrote it down wrong, because it would not give me a proper code reading. So I went back outside to ask the guy for the code again, and he just says, "No new codes, sir."

So I asked for the old code. The previous code. Nothing works.

So if you fubar writing down the coded letters; you have no option but to restore previous to getting the code. (Which no big deal, because I am saving every step of the way, I actually had a save just before that!) But what if you got the code, saved, and said, "I'll come back to this." And eventually came back; but no longer had your notes. You'd have to restore to a previous point before getting the code. How freaking annoying is that?

This game would be great - if they fixed these things that prevented insanely stupid dead ends.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:31 am

A day in history folks...

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I am going to tell you right now; there's no way I could have done this without a walk thru. Just for the sub sequence alone. And even in the final fight with the Russian sub; I still lost. Until I found a video on Youtube to see how someone else did it (so I am going to modify the walk thru on SHP with my own observations and those I discovered online and/or playing this nightmare of a game myself).

The game has some of the most beautiful scenes in it; but it's a nightmare getting to them.

Also - no idea what the flares were for - I never used them. So I checked the same video (that beat the Russian sub) - and I saw that they used the flares in an underground cavern a few times; but with no result. So I am not entirely sure what they're for? I am sure they're used for those caverns - but the video only has music; the person isn't talking and explaining why they're doing what they're doing...

So if someone beat this game and knows exactlywhat's in those caves that the flares locate - please let me know! I did notice when they used theflares in the cave; it will show sort of a direction, as if the wind were blowing bits of the flare in a specific direction? I may restore to that area and swim around to see if I can uncover what that is.But whatever it is - not needed for the final game.

Some things I did like about the game -

No matter where you were in a room, if there's a spot to open a cabinet; and you typed "open cabinet" the character would walk there on their own; even if it was across the room and preform that action. I thought that was kind of nice. (Especially if you're restoring a lot because, say you failed at something - it's a nice quick way to get tasks done!)

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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:37 am

Iceman_SaveGames_Ver1-033.zip
Codename Iceman Save Files.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby adeyke » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:46 am

So that whole thing doesn't make sense in terms of the narrative, and it's just there for the sake of copy protection (and being one more thing the player can mess up)? That's disappointing.

It seems that a lot of the gameplay comes from one of three things:
1. Copy protection. Lots of it. The intrusive manual-based copy protection is a big problem for a lot of Sierra games, but this is one of the worst.
2. Just following orders.
3. Puzzles for the sake of puzzles. There are a lot of things that either don't fit in with the plot or that even run counter to it.

This is a shame, because the game does have great music, and on a technical level, it's quite nice.

As for the flares, I believe their use is to make the current visible (via floating debris), to help the player get through the maze.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:00 pm

adeyke wrote:So that whole thing doesn't make sense in terms of the narrative, and it's just there for the sake of copy protection (and being one more thing the player can mess up)? That's disappointing.


And as it turns out, you definitely need the CIA code (and thus the earring) - because without it, a lot of things can't happen! Just didn't realize it, because it's all later in the game.

adeyke wrote:It seems that a lot of the gameplay comes from one of three things:
1. Copy protection. Lots of it. The intrusive manual-based copy protection is a big problem for a lot of Sierra games, but this is one of the worst.


Well, to be fair - I understand the need for copy protection from manuals. Because back then (well, even now) - games get copied illegally and placed somewhere for download. What's a good way of stopping someone? Having a copy protection that requires the manual - especially, if during the game, it creates random words (not just once, but several times) - that require the manual to use. I wouldn't have minded that so much, except for the fact - like I said, if you fubar and wrote down the wrong code - then go back to ask the radio guy - and he won't repeat it. Then it's a problem. I don't understand why he doesn't say, "Didn't I already tell you? Anyway, G-EF-A C-BB-E" (or whatever and repeat the code). This would have avoided potential frustration from players (and probably me back in the day) - but thankfully with this play through, I was making new folders to save my game, because I was saving at virtually every step - so a restore took me back, literally 15 seconds.

adeyke wrote:2. Just following orders.


The following orders thing is brutal. Well, the time you're allowed to correct yourself, is such a small widow, before you're scolded, and the game ends. I can't remember when I first played it (just remember being super annoyed) - but it takes time to understand and get a feel for the sub. Granted the first dive mission, is for that very purpose - but suddenly when you're fighting warships and subs, and needing to do all this extra stuff that wasn't covered; it's easy to go too deep, turn too far, forget to turn off sonar, etc etc.

adeyke wrote:3. Puzzles for the sake of puzzles. There are a lot of things that either don't fit in with the plot or that even run counter to it.


And some of the puzzles are brutal. Only because I am older, and under the idea of "pick up everything" for Sierra games was I even able to find some of the stuff that's "in the kitchen" later in the game, that's required to finish it. Some of the puzzles, or the places where things are placed are really, really out there...

adeyke wrote:This is a shame, because the game does have great music, and on a technical level, it's quite nice.


And the graphics, really are beautiful in this game.

adeyke wrote:As for the flares, I believe their use is to make the current visible (via floating debris), to help the player get through the maze.


Yeah, that's what's weird. There's no maze you HAVE to go through. So there must be something in the maze; something extra to do.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby adeyke » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:05 pm

I certainly why they'd want to use copy protection like that. However, like all copy protection schemes, it couldn't actually stop piracy, and it severely inconvenienced legitimate players. If you're giving someone a copy of the floppies, it's a simple matter to give them the relevant information from the manuals as well, whether in the form of a hand-transcribed note, a photocopy, or a text file. Or pirates could modify the program to remove the copy protection. And even if the copy protection works perfectly, the game might still be copied and sold, and it would then be the buyer who's hurt by it rather than the seller.

And it's a major annoyance for legitimate players. Manuals might get lost, or they just might not be close at hand when a person wants to play the game. And even if you have the manual nearby, it's just a big immersion-breaking hassle to need to look things up in it, especially if it happens more than once in the game. When I play a game, I want to only interact with that game, not any notes or manuals. It also really hurts the artistic integrity of the games.

I think if you have the device from the dice game, you can bypass the caves.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:59 pm

adeyke wrote:I think if you have the device from the dice game, you can bypass the caves.


I don't know if you can get to the area with the caves without the device. Because as soon as you blow up the oil rig and then swim to the dock area; there's the magnetic gate that prevents you from getting past it. I think the caves are beyond that gate. Like I said, now that I beat the damn game; I am going to explore around and see if that's the case.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby adeyke » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:31 pm

Instead of going through that field, head two screens to the left, and there's an entrance to the cave behind a rock. Apparently, you can also get a bottle on that screen if you didn't win one. So in that instance, the game is actually surprisingly forgiving.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Tawmis » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:22 pm

adeyke wrote:Instead of going through that field, head two screens to the left, and there's an entrance to the cave behind a rock. Apparently, you can also get a bottle on that screen if you didn't win one. So in that instance, the game is actually surprisingly forgiving.


I was just coming here to say that! I looked on the SHP Iceman Hintbook just now and found that.

So yeah, at least that's forgiving.

I also have to give prompts to the end car chase - there's a scene after you save the ambassador - that you have a car chase up a mountain, and it's a curvy road similar to Manahanannanananana's ( :lol: ) place from KQ3 - and in Codename: Iceman you can press F8 and skip that scene (which then puts you to the end credits, so you don't have to drive up the mountain). So I was thankful for that.
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Re: A Return To My Bane. (Codename: Iceman)

Postby Collector » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:30 pm

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