Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Talk about anything you want here

How would like to see a remake's art directed?

Completely Re-imagined (don't touch the original art! Do something new!)
4
44%
Mostly Re-imagined (A few nods to the original would be cool)
2
22%
Partially Re-imagined (seeing a couple new areas would be neat, but stick to what worked)
2
22%
Completely Copied (don't mess with the masterpiece!)
0
No votes
I don't like remakes at all
1
11%
 
Total votes : 9

Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby MusicallyInspired » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:42 pm

I posted this on the IA boards. It's just something I was musing about (which I've been talking about over at the POS boards as well) and a personal question I'm curious to see how the general public likes to see their remakes. Also, I'm not taking into account character art design re-imagining. Just backgrounds.

Myself, I prefer almost completely re-imagining the art with only a scene or two that resembles the original for the odd nod and tribute reference to the original artwork. I've played the originals, I love them, but I want to see something new and stand on its own. Nothing will replace the originals, obviously, but I do think it's more worthwhile to put time and effort into something that will stand on its own legs. By the same reasoning, no trace-over or copied background will live up to the original EGA art either. In my opinion.

It's worth noting that all of Sierra's remakes were of entirely re-imagined and brand new background art (and character art, as well) with only vague similarities to the originals. SQ1VGA being the most departed from the original. Now that remake wasn't as good, but I believe that it wasn't because they departed from the original artwork but because they just chose the wrong art direction (40's/50's rounded-edge sci-fi look). PQ1VGA is arguably a bad remake as well, but not because of the art. I thought the artwork was great in that game.

It's also worth nothing that AGDI's KQ1 remake consisted of straight copies, but only because KQ1 was the only Sierra remake that didn't make it to VGA. The artwork was already re-imagined it just needed to be brought into glorious KQ5-esque VGA. Which AGDI accomplished quite well. KQ2+ had a lot of copied areas, but the entire game was re-imagined which brought in a lot of new art as well. KQ3Redux had mostly copied or "fleshed out" art where things were added into the original scenes. But as gorgeous as it looks, they were still mostly copies. QFG2 was completely copied and is the least impressive (though again, the artwork looks nice). The only really reworked part was the city streets (which looks MUCH better). In a way, because of KQ1VGA, AGDI indirectly started a trend that other remakers have followed; copying the original art. Which is strange in a way because the original straight east/west/north/south exits/entrances and flat land was a forced limitation of the controls of SCI0 and AGI games to begin with. While Sierra's VGA games took advantage of the P&C pathfinding walk ability and designed many more diagonal exits and camera angles.

What are everyone else's thoughts?
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby Tawmis » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:56 pm

Well I'd say Completely redo - if it's along the same lines. Sort of like what they have done with the EGA remakes (that Sierra did). It was the same screens, but completely touched up.
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby Collector » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:06 pm

This is a little hard to give a generic answer. My answer may vary by game. While I would love to see some high resolution artwork versions of my favorites, but would not want to see too many liberties taken with the content in terms of style or layout. For example, while KQ6 had a few characters the were not realistic, i.e. the Sense Gnomes and Jollo, most were relatively realistic. I would detest an overall cartoony style treatment. LSL had evolved to a cartoony style under Al Lowe, so that treatment of the remakes is mostly fine by me. KQ7 was the only one that had the cartoon treatment and was one of my least favorites, so I would not want that style extended backwards. TSL is not a remake, but with its crude 3-D treatment , I would rather have it be hand painted 2-D than the obvious polygonal modeling. But fan sequels are a bit of a different matter.
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby gumby » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:23 pm

Completely re-imagined.

I've tried 3 times to quantify this statement and I can't. Every time I end up feeling hypocritical.
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby DeadPoolX » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:25 pm

Collector wrote:This is a little hard to give a generic answer. My answer may vary by game. While I would love to see some high resolution artwork versions of my favorites, but would not want to see too many liberties taken with the content in terms of style or layout. For example, while KQ6 had a few characters the were not realistic, i.e. the Sense Gnomes and Jollo, most were relatively realistic. I would detest an overall cartoony style treatment. LSL had evolved to a cartoony style under Al Lowe, so that treatment of the remakes is mostly fine by me. KQ7 was the only one that had the cartoon treatment and was one of my least favorites, so I would not want that style extended backwards. TSL is not a remake, but with its crude 3-D treatment , I would rather have it be hand painted 2-D than the obvious polygonal modeling. But fan sequels are a bit of a different matter.

I feel the same way as Collector.

BTW, I've been on the Steam message boards way too much. I immediately wanted to reply to Collector's post with: "+1 rep" and add to his reputation points. :P
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-- Collector (commenting on a slight spelling error made by Tawmis)
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby MusicallyInspired » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:56 am

If you're having trouble, just view it this way. I'm not saying the style has to change or anything just a simple black and white issue. Would you rather see the visuals remade or would you want to stick to copies and traceovers of the original backgrounds, just with more colours. Even if it's just the exact same scene with the exact same objects and style but from a different perspective. I'm also not talking about interface or engine approach (lo res 2D vs 3D or hi res 2D or something). Say we're just talking about lo res VGA in AGS (or 32-bit, as is usually the case).
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby Maxor127 » Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:17 am

It doesn't matter to me if they change the story or not, but I wish remakes would at least be higher resolution and not update a game to mid-90s standards. I wish there were remakes of Monkey Island Special Edition quality, but just bumping up the resolution would be a good improvement. Right now I'm playing Vohaul Strikes Back, and I'm impressed with the graphics for the most part. It looks like it runs at a minimum of 800x600.

As for the artwork. I guess partially reimagined would be good. It depends on if you'd call showing the same area from a slightly different perspective "mostly reimagined" or not. Like Quest for Glory 1 VGA. It's pretty much true to the original, but it contains slightly different artwork so you can tell they didn't just trace over the original. I like the remake and original pretty much equally. But then there's Police Quest 1 remake, which is completely different stylistically, and I hate it with a passion.

*Edit* But since you consider the Sierra remakes completely reimagined, then I guess I'll change my answer to that.
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby adeyke » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:53 am

I think what matters is how the game looks, not how it got there. And I think any general answer to the question could be problematic, since the original games differ so much. A mere repaint of the AGI KQ1 would have been disastrous, but repainting the SCI remake turned out quite nice.

I also think that some of the reimaginings went too far. In the remake of QfG1, the purple saurus (still referred to as such, IIRC) is now cyan, and Baba Yaga's hut is now a cave. For official remakes, changing things too much also raises issues of the canon. What color did the hero's cape actually have?
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby gumby » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:17 am

I'll put it this way. There should be sufficient deviation from the origional piece of work, otherwise what is the point in recreating or replaying it?

Edit: I probably didn't answer the graphical part of the question. I'd say change it radically, the graphics seem to be what people best relate to. I'm in favor of lots of changes here. Hi res, 3d, what ever. I'd even support going backwards. Anyone up for Doom SCI style?
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby MusicallyInspired » Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:14 am

I should add that when I say "new areas" in the poll, I just mean redesigned backgrounds, not all new areas in the game.
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby beepscale » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:21 am

I don't like them at all. I find things such as the new Star Trek film to be of poor taste. But that's just a bad taste lingering in my mouth. I admit it's just not my cup of tea...

But , I don't hold that as a bar standard, even though I said and voted that I don't like them at all. I'm sure I've liked , enjoyed a remake one time or another in my life, some where...

But, feelings have taken away from the conversation for me, I can't summon up deep thoughts. My feelings of hate, remorse, for the remakes I can think of, have blinded me . So this is as most as I can add to the intellectual message boards, where we share thoughts and words on the internet.

I did not remove myself from my personal feelings, and bias. And I limited myself intellectually by sucumbing to a closed mind. But I was asked to choose a option and I chose it. Maybe I chose it too deeply without considering a balance between all my options. Life is rarely cookie cutter. But I do hate Star Trek!
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby MusicallyInspired » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:22 am

You realize I'm talking about Sierra game remakes specifically, right? And not movies?

Also, I'm a longtime Trek fan and I loved the movie. Can't wait for the next one.
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby Rath Darkblade » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:22 am

Hmm. Basically, I like most remakes - I even like cartoony graphics where appropriate (e.g. I loved Monkey Island 3 - the cartoony graphics just seemed to add to the extreme silliness of the game, which made it more fun). :) Also, I suppose that - as MI3 was one of the first "talkies" that I played - that also added to my feelings of nostalgia there. But I'm digressing.

The only style of graphics I'm not too flash about is where 3D polygonal graphics are used to such an extent that it becomes obvious and annoying. It was one of the things that bothered me a bit about QfG5. It was a great game, sure, but why make everyone move like they have strings attached to their arms and legs?

As for the story - I believe it's okay to add a few puzzles if you can think of some, or (if a puzzle is way too hard) simplify it, or even (in extreme cases) get rid of it if it isn't essential to the plot. Don't keep an overly difficult puzzle just for the hell of it. However, if you change the story entirely, you're obviously not in remake-country anymore, Toto. :P Now I'm not trying to discourage people from writing their own stories and their own games - that's part of what creativity is all about, that's what got us (well, most of us, I hope!) into adventure games in the first place. But if you're making a remake, and you don't keep the same story (or at least a similar story), you'll have fans of the original up in arms, demanding to know why you butchered their childhood favourite - and what will you tell them? :|
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Re: Remakes: How would you rather see them?

Postby Maxor127 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:42 pm

I remember liking QFG5's graphics compared to some other 3D games of the time, maybe because it used voxels. In comparison, Mask of Eternity looks so primitive, it makes me not even want to play it. I didn't like Gabriel Knight 3's graphics either, but they were tolerable.

I've been thinking a lot about how awesome it would be to see HD remakes of Quest for Glory games with completely redone graphics that are 3D rendered but still keep the same basic style of the originals. This is a good example of what I'd like a remake to strive for: http://vihola.deviantart.com/art/Misty-Town-274622535
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