Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Collector » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:25 pm

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by MusicallyInspired » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:38 am

:mrgreen:

In other news, rumours are circulating that Alex Kurtzman has finally been axed as the "Gene Roddenberry" of current Trek. Also that initial test screenings of the new Star Trek Picard have been disappointing to many viewers.
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Collector » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:46 am

I have to wonder how many of those viewers were real Trek fans.
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Tawmis » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:40 pm

Collector wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:46 am
I have to wonder how many of those viewers were real Trek fans.
... or, like sometimes, you can't capture the good ol' days.

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Collector » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:31 pm

It would be telling to know the sampling. Besides, the nostalgia factor is not quite applicable in this case. CBS and Paramount have been thumbing their noses at the Trek base since Jar Jar Abrams's decided to turn Trek into a brainless action flick when Trek fans want something with more substance.
Collector wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:15 pm
I have zero interest in STD. They have ignored what makes Trek Trek. Trek could and did use action, but it was NEVER *about* action until Jar Jar Abrams mutilated it.
Jar Jar on Stewart.jpg
STD is a continuation of that abuse, regardless of what timeline it claims to be. The Orville is enjoyable. It would be very Trek like if they just toned down the slapstick.
This may only be just a meme, but the idiot Jar Jar actually said this. For Trek fans it is not about the nostalgia or childhood memories, but of the ideas, the substance and depth. It is about exploration and a future that we should be so fortunate to see. These are the things that have made Trek endure for over a half century. These new movies/shows are failing because they targeted a new audience while shunning the faithful built-in base. The Jar Jar gee-wiz factor wears thin in short order. Further attempts only elicit a "been there, done that" reaction.
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Datadog » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:03 am

Lately, one of my late night go-tos whenever my son won't sleep is to put on an episode of "The Next Generation" on Netflix. And I've developed a newfound appreciation for how pleasantly chill and visionary the show really is. It may not be action-heavy, but it doesn't need to be since the show's writing is strong enough to get by on suspense and innovation alone. Even the comedy episodes are delightfully heartfelt in a special 90's kind of way.

What I hate about Abrams' influence is that there's no room for diversity in his "Star Trek" universe. Every story has to be a fast, furious action-thriller. We can no longer have stories about Data learning stand-up comedy, or Diana's mom coming to visit without the Enterprise getting torn to shreds. Abrams took a wonderful vision about the potential of humanity, and a future we could one day aspire to live in, and turned it into a B-movie nightmare.

Also, since when is he allergic to philosophy? The guy writes time-travel stories about people looking for redemption on Maybe-Not-Purgatory Island. He, of all people, should know there's an audience for sci-fi philosophy.

This needs an eye-rolling emoji. :roll:
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Tawmis » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:03 pm

Datadog wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:03 am
Also, since when is he allergic to philosophy? The guy writes time-travel stories about people looking for redemption on Maybe-Not-Purgatory Island. He, of all people, should know there's an audience for sci-fi philosophy.
Well, if he's responsible for LOST... I promise you... he did NOT have anything planned out.
Each episode's story was written by everyone on the writing board, scribbling an idea on a tiny notepad, everyone throws it in - shakes it up - and it like the LOTTO - just pull out the first three - and this is what this episode will have!
A tropical island with...
A Polar Bear! (Good one, Bob!)
A Ghost Thing (Dave, you sure do love your ghost stories!)
And a three toed statue! (Margie, we're all sorry about the accident - we're glad to represent you in the form of a statue!)

Next week - three new ideas, all thrown into a hat - rinse and repeat.

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Datadog » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:15 pm

Tawmis wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:03 pm
Next week - three new ideas, all thrown into a hat - rinse and repeat.
Let me see what else a random word generator can come up with...

This is a show about a funeral where a flock of birds steal somebody's credit card There will also be a ghost. (Nice! It's a ghost story after all!)

This is true that LOST significantly didn't go anywhere, and they spent six years tip-toeing around all explanations. Doesn't exactly give me hope that he'll know how to end "Star Wars" either. :?
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Collector » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:30 pm

Datadog wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:15 pm
This is a show about a funeral where a flock of birds steal somebody's credit card There will also be a ghost. (Nice! It's a ghost story after all!)

This is true that LOST significantly didn't go anywhere, and they spent six years tip-toeing around all explanations. Doesn't exactly give me hope that he'll know how to end "Star Wars" either. :?
Look, that bird's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Tawmis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:23 am

Collector wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:30 pm
Datadog wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:15 pm
This is a show about a funeral where a flock of birds steal somebody's credit card There will also be a ghost. (Nice! It's a ghost story after all!)

This is true that LOST significantly didn't go anywhere, and they spent six years tip-toeing around all explanations. Doesn't exactly give me hope that he'll know how to end "Star Wars" either. :?
Look, that bird's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!
If there were another with him, it'd be attempted murder!

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Datadog » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:41 am

Tawmis wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:23 am
If there were another with him, it'd be attempted murder!
*clap clap clap clap clap clap* :lol:
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Tawmis » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:52 pm

Datadog wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:41 am
Tawmis wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:23 am
If there were another with him, it'd be attempted murder!
*clap clap clap clap clap clap* :lol:
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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Collector » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:14 pm

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by Rath Darkblade » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:20 pm

...of crows. :lol:

I tried watching the classic Star Trek, with Shatner and Nimoy etc., when I was a kid. Unfortunately, all the philosophical parts went "whoosh" over my head - but I was, perhaps, 7 or 8, so of course they would have.

Recently, I tried watching a few episodes of TNG and was pleasantly surprised by the discussions of human nature. The story, IIRC, was about a cadet goofing off in space and trying a complicated maneuver, which caused the death of another cadet. He stood trial for murder and ended up learning responsibility for other people. IIRC, Capt. Janeway was on the judging panel, and spent some time talking to him and trying to persuade him to plead guilty, even though he didn't feel guilty due to extenuating circumstances.

I have a few Trekkie friends, who are all very disappointed with the direction that Abrams is taking Trek. It really sounds too bad. :(

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Re: Star Wars / Star Trek Discussion (SciFi In General)

Post by MusicallyInspired » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:18 am

You're confusing two different episodes. The pilot episode of Voyager featured the same actor as that cadet from TNG. Janeway gets him out of prison in Voyager (or whatever that was) to be her pilot because he's a really good one, as was the cadet in TNG. But the two characters are unrelated. In all honesty, they should have been the same character. Don't know why they didn't go with that. Perhaps it was because they figured what the cadet did was too irredeemable for a character like Tom Paris (from Voyager) and created another character instead who was similar but without that specific history.

Regarding differences between Bad Robot's Trek and classic Trek, Abrams really has nothing to do with the new TV shows. It was all Alex Kurtzman and the company Secret Hideout, but many suspect they are closely related to Bad Robot in some behind the scenes fashion as Alex Kurtzman was heavily involved with Star Trek '09 and the other Abrams movies. He's been the lead on this new Trek the entire time. I recall some instance of something he and his team called "canon camp" where everyone involved was going to go on an original canon bender or something to understand Trek. Apparently it was either a farce or they didn't retain anything, though. Or they were just seeking how to throw references in to taint it with their mark. Likely what was the origin of Spock, Pike, and the Enterprise throughout season two of STD.

I just don't understand why they're messing with canon at all. Why do this in "Prime"? Just stick to Kelvin and not near as many people would be mad. I myself enjoyed Star Trek 09 because it rebooted nicely and cleanly without tainting the original timeline. It was a perfect way to reboot it. I had fun with that movie and I would have accepted any Trek in that universe because it would have been separate, even if I didn't like it. But no, they had to mess with the original timeline which just makes it 100 times worse.

The biggest problem is that Trek is not about the optimistic future and an enlightened humanity anymore. It's just a random sci-fi show with high action, backstabbing, and troubled pasts all over the place. It's not something to aspire to at all. It's ridiculous. Gene Roddenberry would roll over in his grave if he knew about what his creation turned into. Long live The Orville.
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