GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

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GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:20 am

Howdy y'all! (Howdy y'all? Really? :shock: Dean Erickson's accent must be infectious.......)

Well, I started playing GK2 for the first time since the 90s. Never finished it, but I'll give it a go again! :)

I played chapters 1 and 2 now. Some good and ... not-so-good ... observations coming up.

The good.
1. Kay Kuter. What can I say - the man knows his work! Just love his voice-work. He is utterly convincing as Herr Huber. First-class! :D

2. The mystery. I like the research that Grace is doing. There's one point I'm not exactly sure on, but ... I'll get to that. Suffice to say, the leg-work she does to find the information is impressive. :)

3. The humour. The actors bring a lot of humour into the story. I just watched chapter 2's closing video, where the Smiths, a pair of "demonologists" from Pennsylvania just barge into Schloss Ritter and want to see Gabriel. (Also found here, about 4:00 onwards). At first, they seem like a pair of demented kooks. :lol: But then the lady has a vision and mentions a "Black Wolf", which coincides with Grace's research into a werewolf trial ... something to think about.

The not-so-good.
1. Full-motion video. I know there was a fashion for this in the mid-90s, when GK2 was made - but yes, it was very difficult to make out any details. For instance, chapter 3 just started and in the video, Gabriel stirs out of bed and holds something. What is it? Who knows. :( But it's not in his inventory ... *shrug*

2. Grace's character. I'm not sure why, but the writers made Grace a jealous, rude, shouty so-and-so this time around. :( She alienates Gerde, which isn't fair at all. Why? who knows.

3. Gabriel's character. I don't know if it's Dean Erickson's accent or what, but I didn't like his interpretation of Gabriel. He constantly smiles, shrugs, pulls faces etc., which makes him come across as weak, ineffectual - almost naive.

4. Research. Generally the research is first-class, but I should mention something: one of the books says that to kill a werewolf, it must be stabbed through the heart or the brain. Well, sorry to be Captain Obvious, but that would work on anyone. :lol:

Anyway, those are my impressions after the first two chapters. Now it's your turn! What did you think of GK2, hmm? :)

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:38 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand ... now I'm stuck again. :( Any ideas what's going on?

I am stuck in chapter 4, as I was last time. I know that I have to go to the Ludwig Castle, the Ludwig Museum (Herrenschiemsee), and the Wagner Museum (Bayreuth), and look at everything - pictures, plaques, statues, masks, desks, sofas, you name it - and listen to everything.

So, I did. The game tells me that I've seen everything at the Castle, but ... stubbornly ... it tells me that I missed something in the two Museums. I don't see what, though! :( I've gone over and over both museums once, twice, three times ... and it still tells me that I missed something. But what is it??? :(

So ... does anyone have a list of the things in the two museums that I must click on and listen to? I hate to ask for spoilers as blatant as these, but this thing is just doing my head in. :(

Thanks ...

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by BBP » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:19 pm

Sure! Let me go look for it...

If you click the Hint button, you'll notice what you still need to see.

-Entry Hall: play tape. Look 2 paintings, play tape and click them. Look and click door and play door tape.
-Bedroom: play tape. Look bed + sink and play 2 tapes there. Look 2 pics and play tape. In the rear section, look stove and play tape.
-Chapel: play tape. Close-up of glass-in-lead and painting: play tape. Close-up of crucifix and Madonna: click.
-Living room: play tape. Click linen. Close-up and click chair. Look painting and play tape. Look swan in back of room. Play tape.
-Grotto: play tape and look table
-Study: play tape, look desk, closet, look paintings and play tape.
-Singer's Hall: play tape. Look window, play tape. Look big wolf painting. Look at 6 Engelhart paintings and play tape at all.

There is Herrenchiemsee. First, talk to the lady to buy a ticket. Then:
-Read the 4 signs near the entrance (Elizabeth letters) and the photos. Look Elizabeth painting & sign. Look big Ludwig painting.
-Move forward, then to the left section. You'll see a large red cape. Read 4 diary signs, the Wagner sign. Look Wagner painting. Look diary box (left wall), read sign. Look box on right wall, look sign and medals. Look cloak and read sign. Look at big painting and read sign.
-Then move to the right section. Look at the sleigh painting. Read the sign. Look at the box under the painting, with the Ludwig notes. Look at the death mask. Read the 4 Final Day signs. NOTE THE URN IMAGE.
Note in Herrenchiemsee you must click a text in order to get Grace to read it.

Then, talk to the German lady. You'll get the address for the Wagner museum. Go there, and:
-Look in the first room at the 2 statues, at the piano and at the sign. Then take the left door.
-Look at the sofa and read the sign. Look at the desk on the right, read the sign, look at the drawing and the letter. Look at Wagner's death mask.
-Move on to the next room. Look at the Ludwig portrait, the statue, and read the 4 signs in the box.
-In the next room, look costumes, maquette and the 2 sets of production designs.
-At Georg, look in the box on the counter and look at the souvenirs.
Then, talk to the lovely Georg.

Did you open up Seeshaupt yet?


Now you know why I don't like GK2 too much - still there's a good puzzle at the end of chapter 5 and a very good puzzle at the end of chapter 6. And the opera!
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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:46 pm

Hmm ... let me see what I've missed:

1. I've done all of Neuschwanstein, so there's nothing I need there. Hooray! :)

2. In Herrenchiemsee, I looked at everything the game lets me. I looked at the sleigh painting, and the box under the painting, with Ludwig's notes (to his servants - get up earlier!) :P I looked at the Death Mask ... and that seems to be it. :( Where is the 4 Final Day sign, or the Urn Image? :(

3. In the Wagner Museum ... I've clicked on everything and talked to Georg about everything, so that should be it - but the game still tells me I missed something. :(

I don't have Seeshaupt yet, either. Sorry ...

Any ideas what I'm missing?

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by BBP » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:13 am

In Herrenchiemsee you can - this is hard to describe, but you have the entrance with the lady? From there you go right to the sleigh painting, but you can also go left there. It's a recognizable scene with a big red mantle. There are sections of a diary that you need to see. The chapter ends in the Wagner museum so it's not surprising that it still shows up.
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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:38 am

All right ... I think I managed to find the "Last Four Days" diary section you mentioned, but I listened to it the first time. So I'm still not sure what I missed - maybe it's this Urn Image???

Just to be clear, I've taken pictures of both the right and left of the Herrenchiemsee museum - here they are:

Left...
gk2_left.png
Left
And right...
gk2_right.png
Right
So ... where is the elusive urn? :( I'm afraid I can't find it.

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by BBP » Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:42 pm

There is a picture of the urn in the last 4 days. I'm not sure if this advances the chapter but it's important you see it.

Be sure you CLICK every single text - Grace doesn't "read" them unless you've clicked them. On occasion this will trigger a cutscene.

Did you talk about Ludwig's diary to the museum lady?
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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:50 pm

Aha! :) Now I've seen what I did wrong. I clicked on everything, including the urn - but I didn't know that I had to talk to the museum lady about Ludwig's diary. Once I did, the chapter proceeded normally. Thanks, BBP! :)

By the way, any idea what Grace and the Museum Lady say (in German) about Ludwig's diary? I got the gist of it - i.e. the diary is in the German National Archive and cannot be released - but what do they actually say? :| I've had a look at the GK2 script on Tawm's LarryLaffer.net, but I don't understand it.

Thanks again :)

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by BBP » Mon Nov 04, 2019 12:31 pm

Ich hoffe es, ich spreche beruflich Deutsch... ich arbeite nämlich für die Deutschsprachiche Kundenservice von einem Ferienhaus-Vermieter.
(I should hope so, I speak German professionally. I work for the German-language customer service of a holiday home rental company.)

MILLER Sie können hier nicht hereinkommen bevor Sie Eintritt bezahlt haben. / You can't come in here before paying entry.
GRACE Uh, I'm sorry.

GRACE Guten Tag. / Good day
MILLER Guten Tag. / Good day
GRACE Ich hätte gern eine Eintrittskarte fürs Museum. / I would like to have one ticket to the museum.
MILLER Ja. Acht Mark für eine Ganztagskarte. / Yes. 8 Marks for a day ticket.
GRACE Danke. / Thanks
MILLER Bitte. / You're welcome.





GRACE Ist das die Ludwig Museum? / Is this the Ludwig museum?
MILLER Ja, ja. Ludwig II von Bayern. / Yes, Ludwig II of Bayern.
GRACE Ludwigs Tagebuch? Im Museum? / Ludwig's diary? In the museum?
MILLER Ja? / Yes?
GRACE Wo kann ich Ludwigs Tagebucher anschauen? / Where can I see Ludwig's diaries?
MILLER Das Tagebuch ist sehr persönlich. Es ist in den Königlichen Archiven. Niemand darf Sie
lesen. / The diary is very personal. It is in the Royal Archives. No-one is allowed to read them.
GRACE Aber... / But...
MILLER Nein! Niemand darf sie lesen. / No! No-one may read it! (note - should be Niemand darf es lesen)
GRACE Danke. / Thanks.

GRACE Im Museum es einen Brief von Ludwig... über eine neue Wagner Opera? / There's a letter from Ludwig about a new Wagner opera?
MILLER Ja, ja. Ich kenne den Brief. / Yes, I know this letter.
GRACE Wo kann ich... uh... mehr von diese Wagner Oper sehen? / Where can I see more of this Wagner opera?
MILLER Ich weiss nichts über Wagner. Das hier ist kein Wagner Museum. / I don't know anything about Wagner. This is not the Wagner museum.
GRACE Ja, ich weiss. / Yes, I know.
MILLER In Bayreuth befindet sich das Wagner Museum. Versuchen Sie es dort. / In Bayreuth there's a Wagner museum. You should try there.
GRACE Bayreuth? Danke. / Bayreuth? Thank you.

I put translations of GK2's German in my compendium, which also includes a full walkthrough. You can find it at:
http://bonny.ploeg.ws/frameset.html
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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:38 pm

Thank you, BBP. :) I've read the companion article to GK2 and your article on Wagner. I've performed some of Wagner's choir music (from Parsifal, Meistersinger etc.) and taught myself a little about Wagner, and I agree with you about him: the music is cold and didn't inspire any emotions for me. Even worse, Wagner's personality (and especially his anti-semitism) repelled me. :(

Musically, if we're discussing the Romantic period, I much prefer Wagner's contemporaries, Mendelssohn or Verdi. I haven't heard enough of Meyerbeer to form an opinion. However, my favourite composers (Mozart, Haydn, Bach, Vivaldi, Handel - in that order) all belong to the Baroque and Classical periods. :) I've listened to some of Henry Purcell's music, and I like it - it's a uniquely English form of Baroque.

Who are some of your favourite composers to listen to, or to perform? Just wondering. :)

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by BBP » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:04 am

Saint-Saëns is the one I love best - I spent my teens with headphones on seated before the stereo, listening to Danse Macabre on continuous repeat. He wrote lots of beautiful music beyond that: Africa, his harp concerto, cello concertos... and then I haven't even begun scratchinh the surface of his vocal work! ( although Danse Macabre was originally a song for tenor and orchestra).
Beyond that there are too many to list - from Machaut to Peter Maxwell Davies I get my playlist stuffed. Over the years I've developed a penchant for more recent music but that does not take away any of the glory of Josquin or Dufay.

I'm no fan of antisemitism but in musicology you don't get too far if you let your morals get in the way of your studies. Whether it's the renaissance composers Tromboncino or Gesualdo who both murdered their wives and their wive's lovers after catching them in flagrante delicto, or Nicolaes Gombert who raped a choir boy. One of music's most important composers Jean-Baptiste Lully, nowadays best known because he died of gangreen caused by stomping his conductor's staff on his toe, was a certified asshole with infamous temper. As ballet maitre he'd kick pregnant dancers in the stomach to make them abort, for instance.
Stravinsky, considered the inventor of modern music, was a fascist. In 19th century music nationalism and accompanying xenophobia and antisemitism were rampant - Wagner's the tip of the iceberg.
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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:21 am

Finally, finally, finally ... after nearly 25 years (since it was released in 1995) ... I finished GK2!!! :D

There were some things in GK2 that didn't really make sense. For instance, staging a new Wagner opera in two months? When I was a member of a light opera society, it took longer than that to stage a Gilbert and Sullivan opera or a Mendelssohn one, much less something by Wagner. Wagner is massively complicated. That's not even to mention building the sets, finding the props, making the costumes - and running rehearsals, testing the lights, doing dress rehearsals ...

A two-month run from start to finish is insane.

Another thing that doesn't make sense: the character of "The Black Wolf", aka someone called Gudden? IIRC, the doctor who treated Ludwig was called Bernard von Gudden. The game made him seem sinister, but in real life, von Gudden was simply a doctor who did his best for his patient.

I also didn't like the fact that Grace acted like a jerk. But it wasn't her fault: Gabriel acted like a bigger jerk. :(

As for the good things: the shots of the lake and Ludwig's various castles are marvelous. I did my research on Ludwig, especially his death on the lake, and the shots are spot on. And the opera! How many games do you know that involve an opera as a major plot point? :)

BBP, I wonder if you have the translation for the opera? If not, could you kindly translate it for me - no hurry, obviously. I'm just curious what they say in the opera. It goes as follows:

==================
We all like the opera, the opera, the opera

HILDEGUNDE
Die Nacht ist der Meister
Der finsteren Gründe
Kalt bis ins Mark
Die Farbe der Sünde
An das Leuchten der Sonne
Du reichst nicht heran
Doch wo du regierst
Der Tag nicht bricht an
Das Reich des Todes
Das ist die Nacht
Den Tod zu errinnern
Hat Gott dich gemacht
Das Licht nicht muss weichen
Die nacht dem Tag
So gib mir Mut
dass zu warten ich vermag
Oh, Mond
Mein schöner Freund

BARON
Mond, meine Braut singt den Mond an
der Mond kann Euch nicht helfen
nur Euer Gatte kann Euch alles geben was ihr braucht!

HILDEGUNDE
Mein Gatte!

BARON
Kommt! Eure Gäste brauchen das Trällern
Eures Lächels mehr als ihr denn Mond

HILDEGUNDE
Gatte!

BARON
Kommt!

VILLAGERS
Wo ist die Musik? Wo ist die Unterhaltung?

BARON
Bringt die Sänger!

VILLAGERS
Die Sänger! Die Sänger! Es ist eine Freude!

BARON
Seht, wie sie spielen! Nur für Euch ind immer fort.
Sehst Du den Dicken und auch den Dummen dort?

HILDEGUNDE
Ich sehe sie!

VILLAGERS
Es ist eine Freude!

BLACKSMITH
Der Dumme, ich habe ihm nie zufor gesehen!

VILLAGER
Zu deren Vorteil, noch niemals lachte ich mehr!

BLACKSMITH
Doch schaut er bekannt aus, aber nicht so fröhlich.

VILLAGER
Ihr habt keinen Sinn für Humor wenn ihr so denkt!

VILLAGERS
Es ist eine Freude!MOTHERSeht wie euer Gatte
Warum kann ihr nicht lachen, lachen!
FATHER
Hört auf eure Mutter, ihr seid doch kein Mastkalb
Spielt nicht den Märtyrer, lacht, lacht!

HILDEGUNDE
Ich höre euch!

BARON
Nicht zu verstehen, ich vermag
Es ist doch mein Hochzeitstag!
VILLAGER
Der Jäger, der Jäger, er beschleicht sein Opfer

VILLAGER
Es ist nur ein Schertz, Baron

BLACKSMITH
Ich hoffe, sie fangen den Dummen!
VILLAGER
Euer Witz ist so stumpf, wie Eure Schwerter, Schmied!

VILLAGERS
Der Jäger, der Jäger, er beschleicht sein Opfer!

BARON
Das ist nicht komisch, haltet sofort ein!

HILDEGUNDE
Verblichen euer Mut, mein Guter?

BARON
Ich bin ausser mir!

VILLAGERS
Ein Wolf! Ein Wolf!

VILLAGER
Folgen wir den Wolf!
==================

(Many thanks to Tawm's GK2 transcript, available here: http://larrylaffer.net/scripts/gk2.pdf) ;)

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Tawmis » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:40 am

Rath Darkblade wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:21 am
(Many thanks to Tawm's GK2 transcript, available here: http://larrylaffer.net/scripts/gk2.pdf) ;)
Those aren't mine - those are BBP's - I just uploaded them to host them and give them a permanent home.

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by Rath Darkblade » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:35 am

Oh! Oops. :shock: Sorry, BBP and Tawm ... my mistake. *blush*

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Re: GK2, first impressions ... and ***SPOILERS***

Post by BBP » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:05 am

No harm done Rath...

Say, since you did light opera, what did you think of the scene where the guy who plays Engelhart begs to the conductor for an extra aria just hours before opening? :D

There was a release of the English translation but never of the opera libretto. Because of this I didn't bother to translate it in my script or on my page. The German isn't as fluent to me and there are a few bits where I wonder if that's really what's been said.
There's also Hildegunde's mother whose piercing voice is so tough to understand the back-translators of the libretto didn't even bother. :D




Hildegunde:
Night is the master of dark reasons.
Cold to the core, the colour of sin
You don't reach the light of the sun
But where you reign the day won't break
The Kingdom of Death is the night.
God has made you to remember death.
The light shouldn't dodge
the night the day
So give me courage that I may wait
Oh moon, my beautiful friend


Baron:
Moon, my wife sings to the moon!
The moon can't hear you!
Only your spouse can give you anything you need.

Hildegunde:
My husband!

Baron:
Come, your guests need the trill of your laughter more than the moon!

Come!

Villagers:
Where is the music?
Where is the conversation?

Baron:
Bring the singers!


Villagers:
The singers! The singers! It's a joy!

Baron:
See how they play! Only for you and always gone
Do you see the fat one, and also the dumb one there?

Hildegunde:
I see them

Villagers: It's a joy!

Blacksmith:
The dumb one, I've never seen him before!

Villager:
That's to his benefit. I never laughed more!

Blacksmith:
Still he looks so familiar, but not so happy

Villager:
If you think that way you have no sense of humour.

Villagers:
It's a joy!

Mother:
Look what efforts a husband makes on your behalf Why Can't you laugh?

Father:
Listen to your mother, you're not a calf that's taken to the slaughter.
Don't play the martyr, laugh, laugh!

Hildegunde:
I hear you!



Baron:
I don't understand you. It's my wedding day.

Villagers:
The hunter, the hunter, he sneaks up on his victim.

Lead villager:
it's but a joke, Baron.

Blacksmith:
I hope they catch the dumb one!

VIllager:
Your wit is as dull as your blades, blacksmith.


Villagers:
The hunter, the hunter, he sneaks up on his victim.

Baron:
That isn't funny, stop immediately?

Hildegunde:
Is your courage paling, my husband?
Engelhart! Engelhart!

Baron:
I'm beside myself!

Villagers:
A wolf! A wolf!

Lead villager:
Let's follow the wolf!
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